Do manipulations absolve a cheater of any blame?

Dreamgirl, 4/5/2023, 6:58AM(390 days ago) @Vik.

Just a quick question. Consider this situation:
- X and Y are together
- M manipulates X
- X cheats on Y with Z or leaves Y for Z because of M's manipulations
- X learns the truth about M's manipulations
- X leaves Z and goes back to Y

Is X a victim or is X a cheater? I know each case has a few differences, but these situations are always similar.

- Last example was Ridge and Taylor. Thomas manipulated him. Thomas was wrong. But does the fact that Thomas manipulated absolve Ridge? Does it justify how he left Brooke and slept with Taylor, and then how he left Taylor at the altar? Does it justify his lies to both women?
- Another example is Liam and Steffy's kiss in Italy. Bill and Deacon manipulated them. Liam thought Hope left him, so he kissed Steffy and kept it secret in his vows. He learnt Hope didn't leave him after all and stayed with her. Do Bill and Deacon's manipulations absolve Liam and Steffy?
- Another example is Hope and Wyatt's lovemaking in Monte-Carlo. Quinn manipulated them. Hope thought her fiancee wasn't coming, so she slept with Wyatt and married him. She learnt Liam was there and later she left Wyatt. Do Quinn's manipulations absolve Hope and Wyatt?

Is this all the manipulator's fault? Or do the cheaters deserve punishment too?

No, the manipulations do not absolve the characters. They are to blame too for making stupid decisions. In the case of Liam and Hope they had a serious lack of communication. Each of them was quick to make an impulsive decision when they thought the other had let them down, without talking to the other first. The reason I blame Liam more than Hope for those years of the terrible triangle is because Hope eventually wised up to the manipulation. She left Wyatt and moved away. Now she doesn't even talk to him. Whereas Liam never, ever wised up to Steffy. He was actually the first one to let let her come between him and Hope. He never held her accountable for all the years of misery she put him and Hope through. He kept letting her into his life over and over again in spite of the damage she had caused. Even now he still has a soft spot for her. He will tell Hope that Steffy was wrong to give her an ultimatum but I have yet to hear him tell Steffy the same thing.

Hope only "moved away" from Wyatt because Kim's contract was up. When she came back 3 years later, Wyatt had moved on and never showed an ounce of interest in her again. Honestly, she waffled between Liam and Wyatt for as long as the brothers wanted her. Bell planned to continue this never ending triangle until Kim chose to quit. And if Wyatt was single and willing to reconnect with Hope when she returned (when Liam had Kelly with Steffy), nothing tells me she wouldn't have waffled between them again.

She never held Wyatt accountable for his lies and manipulations. He conspired with his mom, kept secrets, stole a diamond and she still married him. In the end, the only reproach she had was that he couldn't keep his mother away from her. I can't give her too much credit for that. Not a word about the way he treated his brother and how he stalked her and interfered in her relationships.

I also stopped seeing her (any anyone else) as a victim of Thomas' manipulations a long time ago. From the moment she learnt he knew about Beth and saw him trying kidnap her and murder Liam right in front of her, she should have never allowed him to be in the same room. I will continue to blame Thomas for his crap but I'm done feeling sorry for his "victims". Same goes for Steffy and all the idiots who keep forgiving him.

It’s true that their relationship ended because Kim moved away. But the way the ending was written provided a little bit of satisfaction for me. Wyatt followed Hope to Italy to convince her and when he returned he said Hope refused to talk to him and was completely done. She did hold him accountable for not managing to keep his mum away from her. That’s one thing at least that she held him accountable for and it’s more than has ever been written for Liam and Steffy. Even after JMW left in 2013, Steffy was still shown to want Liam. She came back temporarily before Liams wedding to ask him for another chance and he smiled at her and hugged her which again caused a rift in his relationship. He went partying with her the night of his wedding while knowing how Hope would react. As recently as last year he spent nights at Steffys place when Finn “died” again while fully aware that his wife would not like it.

Agree with you about Thomas though. At this point there are no victims. Everyone has made their choice and so should live with the consequences of their actions.

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