What if Liam changes? (General)

What if Liam could go back the nerdy guy who was completely smitten with Hope, the guy who only loved her, would he be the better choice? This is what I struggle with when I think of a love interest for Hope. When you actually think about it, Liam hasn’t been the guy who’s heart only belonged to Hope for years, almost from the beginning. Sure he chose her over Steffy several times, but he also chose Steffy several times too. Thomas’s only appeal is that he only loves Hope, but comparing that to the twisted , sick things he’s done in the name of love , it feels hollow. So for me, when I compare these men and who I’d rather see her with the answer is … neither.

A guy on a soap is not a waffle only until two women compete for him and Wyatt is a great example. For years we compared him with Liam and called him the loyal one, but later when two women fought for him the waffle came out. Thomas was a waffle with other women in the past and now he is all about Hope, but who is competing with Hope for Thomas? Nobody.

Steffy wasn't competing with Liam this time. She turned him down from the first moment he kissed her in Rome. Then he repeatedly chased her and professed his love for her. Tried to kiss her without any encouragement from her. As I've said before, if Thomas had done the exact same things to Hope that Liam did to Steffy last year, we'd have never heard the end of it. But for some reason Liam still comes away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if even that. Liam does not just waffle if there are two women fighting for him. He needs another woman to turn to whenever he is hurt by Hope, even if that woman isn't available. He's been written that way. Can that writing change? Sure. But it would be nice if we had an explanation as to why he always behaves this way.

Ridge and Liam both did his kind of stuff over the years. Soap men are like that and soap women forgive them. I think what Liam did to a married Steffy is disgusting, but this is still in the soap standards. Keeping someone's baby from them and daydreaming about her whole family being dead is considered bad even for soap standard's. Like Steffy sleeping with her FIL was wrong, but I still view it as less horrible then Thomas's crimes.
I doubt that we will get an explanation on why Liam is like that... We never got an explanation why Ridge is like that too.

Exactly. I guess we are all suppose to forget that Hope ran off with Liam's brother when Liam was 5 minutes late to meet her in Paris. And that Steffy crawled into bed with Wyatt half naked to cuddle, when she and Liam had a fight. The women do it to, they turn to someone else when they think they are about to be dumped. But, Ridge does take the crown as the king of whiplashing between women. He doesn't even leave his wives, before he is proposing to someone else. He doesn't even allow a night to go by, before he is in bed with some other woman.

I always read that, that Hope married Wyatt because Liam was late. That's now how it happened. Hope and Liam had an agreement that if he wasn't at the Eiffel Tower at 3:00 that would mean that he didn't want to be with her. He wasn't late. He didn't show up at all. The viewers knew he tried, but Hope didn't. She believed he had made the decision not to be with her.

I don't know why this is always mentioned without also mentioning that Liam married Steffy in Aspen on the mountain when Hope didn't show up. What's the difference? Oh right, he was engaged to Steffy. An engagement which was done with a broken heart, on the rebound, with tears in his eyes. I don't really consider that a real engagement. Plus Liam didn't turn up because he decided to play knight in shining armour as always. He had a choice. Hope didn't turn up because she was stopped from turning up. She had no choice. Why is Liam not at fault when Hope married Wyatt, and also Liam's not at fault when he married Steffy? As always, Liam skates. Skin like a duck. Everything just slides off.

Excellent points.

Let's also not forget that Liam was going to run off with Steffy when he thought Hope didn't want to marry him in Puglia. And he was on the bed with her literally minutes after reading the note he thought Hope left him.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

What if Liam could go back the nerdy guy who was completely smitten with Hope, the guy who only loved her, would he be the better choice? This is what I struggle with when I think of a love interest for Hope. When you actually think about it, Liam hasn’t been the guy who’s heart only belonged to Hope for years, almost from the beginning. Sure he chose her over Steffy several times, but he also chose Steffy several times too. Thomas’s only appeal is that he only loves Hope, but comparing that to the twisted , sick things he’s done in the name of love , it feels hollow. So for me, when I compare these men and who I’d rather see her with the answer is … neither.

A guy on a soap is not a waffle only until two women compete for him and Wyatt is a great example. For years we compared him with Liam and called him the loyal one, but later when two women fought for him the waffle came out. Thomas was a waffle with other women in the past and now he is all about Hope, but who is competing with Hope for Thomas? Nobody.

Steffy wasn't competing with Liam this time. She turned him down from the first moment he kissed her in Rome. Then he repeatedly chased her and professed his love for her. Tried to kiss her without any encouragement from her. As I've said before, if Thomas had done the exact same things to Hope that Liam did to Steffy last year, we'd have never heard the end of it. But for some reason Liam still comes away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if even that. Liam does not just waffle if there are two women fighting for him. He needs another woman to turn to whenever he is hurt by Hope, even if that woman isn't available. He's been written that way. Can that writing change? Sure. But it would be nice if we had an explanation as to why he always behaves this way.

Ridge and Liam both did his kind of stuff over the years. Soap men are like that and soap women forgive them. I think what Liam did to a married Steffy is disgusting, but this is still in the soap standards. Keeping someone's baby from them and daydreaming about her whole family being dead is considered bad even for soap standard's. Like Steffy sleeping with her FIL was wrong, but I still view it as less horrible then Thomas's crimes.
I doubt that we will get an explanation on why Liam is like that... We never got an explanation why Ridge is like that too.

Exactly. I guess we are all suppose to forget that Hope ran off with Liam's brother when Liam was 5 minutes late to meet her in Paris. And that Steffy crawled into bed with Wyatt half naked to cuddle, when she and Liam had a fight. The women do it to, they turn to someone else when they think they are about to be dumped. But, Ridge does take the crown as the king of whiplashing between women. He doesn't even leave his wives, before he is proposing to someone else. He doesn't even allow a night to go by, before he is in bed with some other woman.

I always read that, that Hope married Wyatt because Liam was late. That's now how it happened. Hope and Liam had an agreement that if he wasn't at the Eiffel Tower at 3:00 that would mean that he didn't want to be with her. He wasn't late. He didn't show up at all. The viewers knew he tried, but Hope didn't. She believed he had made the decision not to be with her.

He got to the sight 5 minutes after she ran off with Wyatt and then she married Wyatt on the yacht...it is absolutely no different then Liam being on top of Mt. Desperate and thinking it was going to be Hope up there, and it was Steffy, and he married her. Hope did stupid things, just like Liam has done, all because of "schemes" against them. Liam saw Tom and mannequin Hope making out, ran and got drunk and had sex with Steffy. Hope was mad at Liam for not supporting her having Tom on HFTF and she gets her panties in a knot over it and starts fantasizing about Tom. Back in the day, Liam finds the ring on his mantle and Hope tells him in a phone call they are done, no explanation why, he has sex with Steffy the same day. Liam tells Hope he wants a divorce because he saw her cheating, she has sex with Tom, the same day.

We could probably go through incident by incident of each of these women and match it to an incident of Liam doing the same. With Hope cheating on her husband, they are all now on a level playing field. JMO

It wasn't five minutes. There was a bonus scene where Hope is sitting on a bench, waiting and waiting for Liam to show up. My point is that she didn't turn around and marry Wyatt because Liam was a few minutes late. There was more to the story. They had an arrangement and she thought he had made his decision.

But anyway, the only reason Hope ever got involved with Wyatt was because Liam couldn't disentangle himself from Steffy who he got pregnant after he waffled to her.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

What if Liam could go back the nerdy guy who was completely smitten with Hope, the guy who only loved her, would he be the better choice? This is what I struggle with when I think of a love interest for Hope. When you actually think about it, Liam hasn’t been the guy who’s heart only belonged to Hope for years, almost from the beginning. Sure he chose her over Steffy several times, but he also chose Steffy several times too. Thomas’s only appeal is that he only loves Hope, but comparing that to the twisted , sick things he’s done in the name of love , it feels hollow. So for me, when I compare these men and who I’d rather see her with the answer is … neither.

A guy on a soap is not a waffle only until two women compete for him and Wyatt is a great example. For years we compared him with Liam and called him the loyal one, but later when two women fought for him the waffle came out. Thomas was a waffle with other women in the past and now he is all about Hope, but who is competing with Hope for Thomas? Nobody.

Steffy wasn't competing with Liam this time. She turned him down from the first moment he kissed her in Rome. Then he repeatedly chased her and professed his love for her. Tried to kiss her without any encouragement from her. As I've said before, if Thomas had done the exact same things to Hope that Liam did to Steffy last year, we'd have never heard the end of it. But for some reason Liam still comes away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if even that. Liam does not just waffle if there are two women fighting for him. He needs another woman to turn to whenever he is hurt by Hope, even if that woman isn't available. He's been written that way. Can that writing change? Sure. But it would be nice if we had an explanation as to why he always behaves this way.

Ridge and Liam both did his kind of stuff over the years. Soap men are like that and soap women forgive them. I think what Liam did to a married Steffy is disgusting, but this is still in the soap standards. Keeping someone's baby from them and daydreaming about her whole family being dead is considered bad even for soap standard's. Like Steffy sleeping with her FIL was wrong, but I still view it as less horrible then Thomas's crimes.
I doubt that we will get an explanation on why Liam is like that... We never got an explanation why Ridge is like that too.

Exactly. I guess we are all suppose to forget that Hope ran off with Liam's brother when Liam was 5 minutes late to meet her in Paris. And that Steffy crawled into bed with Wyatt half naked to cuddle, when she and Liam had a fight. The women do it to, they turn to someone else when they think they are about to be dumped. But, Ridge does take the crown as the king of whiplashing between women. He doesn't even leave his wives, before he is proposing to someone else. He doesn't even allow a night to go by, before he is in bed with some other woman.

I disagree. No one takes the cake like Liam does. Until these last few years when he's rebounded to other women in seconds, Ridge has over the years been pretty steadfast when he's been with one woman. He was faithful to Taylor for years, in spite of marrying her out of spite on the runway, and in spite of Brookes constant attempts to sway him. Liam however has been this way since 2011. Way more years than Ridge. I gave him a bit of credit when it seemed like he was devoted to Hope. But then he kissed Steffy in Rome and down the drain went that credit. This character has literally not changed at all. No growth. Which is sad.

He kissed Steffy in Rome because he just saw his lying cheating wife making out with the man that wanted their baby dead, in the middle of the most popular tourist spot in Europe. Sorry, I am not beating up on Liam unless we are beating up on the women too. I am pretty sure I could find an incident from Steffy and Hope both, to match every single thing Liam has done himself when it comes to cheating and betraying trust.

Do you actually see any growth in Hope? She seems to be the same petulant stubborn child she was in 2011. Steffy seems to have grown up a little, but she still is a mean bully, and I have no doubt, she will drive Finn to turn to someone else eventually. Liam, Steffy and Hope are basically all the same. Each of them are cheaters and each of them are users.

Yes I do see some growth in Steffy. For now. The only thing wrong she's done so far in this context (not talking about any other story) is not telling her husband that Liam kissed her and also not being firm enough with Liam. Other than that she's been pretty sensible. Hope is not someone I want to talk about because she's lost her mind. Until she comes back to her senses, I cannot say whether she's shown growth or not. I will say though that it was about time she said she had had enough of Liam's waffling. I've been waiting for that for years. Her timing was wrong. It should have happened during the sweet husband fiasco and I think it was meant to happen at that time, but for some reason was pushed forward. The fact that she finally decided she'd had enough did show a bit of growth. But that being said, that growth was negated because of the way she went about it. If she had turned to Wyatt instead of Tom that would have made so much more sense. I'm still hoping we get some sort of explanation for that nonsense.

What if Liam could go back the nerdy guy who was completely smitten with Hope, the guy who only loved her, would he be the better choice? This is what I struggle with when I think of a love interest for Hope. When you actually think about it, Liam hasn’t been the guy who’s heart only belonged to Hope for years, almost from the beginning. Sure he chose her over Steffy several times, but he also chose Steffy several times too. Thomas’s only appeal is that he only loves Hope, but comparing that to the twisted , sick things he’s done in the name of love , it feels hollow. So for me, when I compare these men and who I’d rather see her with the answer is … neither.

A guy on a soap is not a waffle only until two women compete for him and Wyatt is a great example. For years we compared him with Liam and called him the loyal one, but later when two women fought for him the waffle came out. Thomas was a waffle with other women in the past and now he is all about Hope, but who is competing with Hope for Thomas? Nobody.

Steffy wasn't competing with Liam this time. She turned him down from the first moment he kissed her in Rome. Then he repeatedly chased her and professed his love for her. Tried to kiss her without any encouragement from her. As I've said before, if Thomas had done the exact same things to Hope that Liam did to Steffy last year, we'd have never heard the end of it. But for some reason Liam still comes away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if even that. Liam does not just waffle if there are two women fighting for him. He needs another woman to turn to whenever he is hurt by Hope, even if that woman isn't available. He's been written that way. Can that writing change? Sure. But it would be nice if we had an explanation as to why he always behaves this way.

Ridge and Liam both did his kind of stuff over the years. Soap men are like that and soap women forgive them. I think what Liam did to a married Steffy is disgusting, but this is still in the soap standards. Keeping someone's baby from them and daydreaming about her whole family being dead is considered bad even for soap standard's. Like Steffy sleeping with her FIL was wrong, but I still view it as less horrible then Thomas's crimes.
I doubt that we will get an explanation on why Liam is like that... We never got an explanation why Ridge is like that too.

Exactly. I guess we are all suppose to forget that Hope ran off with Liam's brother when Liam was 5 minutes late to meet her in Paris. And that Steffy crawled into bed with Wyatt half naked to cuddle, when she and Liam had a fight. The women do it to, they turn to someone else when they think they are about to be dumped. But, Ridge does take the crown as the king of whiplashing between women. He doesn't even leave his wives, before he is proposing to someone else. He doesn't even allow a night to go by, before he is in bed with some other woman.

I disagree. No one takes the cake like Liam does. Until these last few years when he's rebounded to other women in seconds, Ridge has over the years been pretty steadfast when he's been with one woman. He was faithful to Taylor for years, in spite of marrying her out of spite on the runway, and in spite of Brookes constant attempts to sway him. Liam however has been this way since 2011. Way more years than Ridge. I gave him a bit of credit when it seemed like he was devoted to Hope. But then he kissed Steffy in Rome and down the drain went that credit. This character has literally not changed at all. No growth. Which is sad.

He kissed Steffy in Rome because he just saw his lying cheating wife making out with the man that wanted their baby dead, in the middle of the most popular tourist spot in Europe. Sorry, I am not beating up on Liam unless we are beating up on the women too. I am pretty sure I could find an incident from Steffy and Hope both, to match every single thing Liam has done himself when it comes to cheating and betraying trust.

Do you actually see any growth in Hope? She seems to be the same petulant stubborn child she was in 2011. Steffy seems to have grown up a little, but she still is a mean bully, and I have no doubt, she will drive Finn to turn to someone else eventually. Liam, Steffy and Hope are basically all the same. Each of them are cheaters and each of them are users.

Also, if Liam's actions had stayed in Rome, I might have excused him as being distraught and not thinking about what he was doing. But his actions continued, beyond Rome. He was literally out to destroy Steffys marriage and if she had given in, the way she usually does, he would have achieved that too. Sorry, but I do not excuse him for that. That was selfish and completely thoughtless, especially considering he calls Steffy his best friend. That by itself is a joke but that's a whole different story. He knows how long it has taken Steffy to get over him and build a life with another man. A good man who is crazy about her. She's finally happy without Liam, after years of obsessing over him. But that didn't matter to Liam. He wanted her and that was all he cared about. Good for Steffy that she didn't give in but I do wish she had told him off.

Under no circumstances would I want Liam back with Hope after creeper Tom hand his paws all over her and she let him. They were my favorite couple until she took up with the evil moron Tom. Now Hope is tainted and now Liam even with his shortcomings is a far better person than Hope can ever become after she has been contaminated by the creeper Tom..

Well, Liam banged nasty Steffy even after she let his father's paws all over her too..he ain't NO better person than Hope imo especially given his own waffling and cheating history..he's tainted a long time ago lol.

Liam banging his wife after she banged his father doesn't change that Hope is an imbecile for banging a psycho. Doesn't make her worse, just makes her the worst in this story.

What wife? Steffy certainly ain't Liam's wife when he banged her on that drunken ONS. He actually cheated on HIS wife Hope because he was too cowardly to confront Thomas in what he thought he saw, so the dumb a$$ ran to 2nd choice and banged her. IMO, he's definitely far worse than Hope given their history.

Are you telling me that Steffy and Liam didn't bang after the ONS with Bill while they were still married and after Liam found out but before the ONS stand when he was married to Hope?

My original post/response was about the drunken ONS that he banged nasty Steffy even after she let his father's paws all over her too. LOL.

It was? All you said was Liam banged Steffy after she let his father's paws ... That's the post I read and that's the post I responded to and in that post there was no mention of the drunken ONS.

Under no circumstances would I want Liam back with Hope after creeper Tom hand his paws all over her and she let him. They were my favorite couple until she took up with the evil moron Tom. Now Hope is tainted and now Liam even with his shortcomings is a far better person than Hope can ever become after she has been contaminated by the creeper Tom..

Well, Liam banged nasty Steffy even after she let his father's paws all over her too..he ain't NO better person than Hope imo especially given his own waffling and cheating history..he's tainted a long time ago lol.

Liam banging his wife after she banged his father doesn't change that Hope is an imbecile for banging a psycho. Doesn't make her worse, just makes her the worst in this story.

What wife? Steffy certainly ain't Liam's wife when he banged her on that drunken ONS. He actually cheated on HIS wife Hope because he was too cowardly to confront Thomas in what he thought he saw, so the dumb a$$ ran to 2nd choice and banged her. IMO, he's definitely far worse than Hope given their history.

Are you telling me that Steffy and Liam didn't bang after the ONS with Bill while they were still married and after Liam found out but before the ONS stand when he was married to Hope?

My original post/response was about the drunken ONS that he banged nasty Steffy even after she let his father's paws all over her too. LOL.

These characters all switch it’s just yuck …they take turns