Hope and Liam (General)

Hope and Liam were not together when she was with Wyatt. That isn’t cheating. Liam and Hope were not committed. Hope was fed up with Liam. In fact if I remember right Liam was seeing Ivy and they they had a double dat with Hope and Liam

Sorry the rest about why it’s worse with Thomas I have never to say. Just trying to make what Hope does or do worse then Liam and not so.

Hope put up with a lot from Liam. Karma is all on him.

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas and I don’t think she will, if she sees it as a mistake and sorry, Liam has two options divorce or forgive her. Liam has done far worse. How many times did Liam waffle between Steffy and Hope. Liam went to Steffy because he was he upset with Hope. Steffy chased Liam like a mad dog. How many weddings didn’t happen because of Steffy? While married to Hope, Liam and Steffy thought he may have fathered their second child. I remember when Hope and Liam were getting married and Taylor drove like bat out of hell so Steffy could shout out before Hope and Liam said I do that she was pregnant the first time.
If Hope sleeps with Thomas and she still want Liam, he should say very little. He can forgive her or not, or ran to Steffy again but Liam has little room to talk regardless of it being Thomas

Hope already crossed the line with Thomas. Months of emotional affair, inappropriate flirting/touching with a man who tried to kill him? She crossed the line the minute she told Liam she wouldn't rehire him and did the exact opposite the same day. She crossed the line all the times she broke her promises and let Thomas back into her life.
Hope already cheated on Liam with Thomas in 2019. They kissed and she kept it secret. Liam forgave. She broke her vows and married Thomas a week later. Liam forgave.
Hope cheated on Liam with Wyatt. Multiple times. Liam forgave. She waffled for 2 years. He forgave.
Hope cheated on Liam with Oliver. Multiple times. Liam forgave. She went back and forth between them. He forgave.
Hope thought she killed Thomas and kept it from Liam. She lied about her pills addiction. 2 secrets among others she kept from him.

How much more is he supposed to forgive? Everyone has a breaking point. Everyone gets karma except Hope, I wish this time will be different.

Exactly. And his mistakes are not lifelong free passes for Hope. I don't get why Hope is me er accountable because of Liam's bygone mistakes. She forgave him. She married him. She needs to uphold her vows.

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas and I don’t think she will, if she sees it as a mistake and sorry, Liam has two options divorce or forgive her. Liam has done far worse. How many times did Liam waffle between Steffy and Hope. Liam went to Steffy because he was he upset with Hope. Steffy chased Liam like a mad dog. How many weddings didn’t happen because of Steffy? While married to Hope, Liam and Steffy thought he may have fathered their second child. I remember when Hope and Liam were getting married and Taylor drove like bat out of hell so Steffy could shout out before Hope and Liam said I do that she was pregnant the first time.
If Hope sleeps with Thomas and she still want Liam, he should say very little. He can forgive her or not, or ran to Steffy again but Liam has little room to talk regardless of it being Thomas

Hope already crossed the line with Thomas. Months of emotional affair, inappropriate flirting/touching with a man who tried to kill him? She crossed the line the minute she told Liam she wouldn't rehire him and did the exact opposite the same day. She crossed the line all the times she broke her promises and let Thomas back into her life.
Hope already cheated on Liam with Thomas in 2019. They kissed and she kept it secret. Liam forgave. She broke her vows and married Thomas a week later. Liam forgave.
Hope cheated on Liam with Wyatt. Multiple times. Liam forgave. She waffled for 2 years. He forgave.
Hope cheated on Liam with Oliver. Multiple times. Liam forgave. She went back and forth between them. He forgave.
Hope thought she killed Thomas and kept it from Liam. She lied about her pills addiction. 2 secrets among others she kept from him.

How much more is he supposed to forgive? Everyone has a breaking point. Everyone gets karma except Hope, I wish this time will be different.

Yep, she repeatedly cheated on all the men she has been with. She cheated on Liam with 3 different guys. That part is always overlooked.

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas and I don’t think she will, if she sees it as a mistake and sorry, Liam has two options divorce or forgive her. Liam has done far worse. How many times did Liam waffle between Steffy and Hope. Liam went to Steffy because he was he upset with Hope. Steffy chased Liam like a mad dog. How many weddings didn’t happen because of Steffy? While married to Hope, Liam and Steffy thought he may have fathered their second child. I remember when Hope and Liam were getting married and Taylor drove like bat out of hell so Steffy could shout out before Hope and Liam said I do that she was pregnant the first time.
If Hope sleeps with Thomas and she still want Liam, he should say very little. He can forgive her or not, or ran to Steffy again but Liam has little room to talk regardless of it being Thomas

Hope already crossed the line with Thomas. Months of emotional affair, inappropriate flirting/touching with a man who tried to kill him? She crossed the line the minute she told Liam she wouldn't rehire him and did the exact opposite the same day. She crossed the line all the times she broke her promises and let Thomas back into her life.
Hope already cheated on Liam with Thomas in 2019. They kissed and she kept it secret. Liam forgave. She broke her vows and married Thomas a week later. Liam forgave.
Hope cheated on Liam with Wyatt. Multiple times. Liam forgave. She waffled for 2 years. He forgave.
Hope cheated on Liam with Oliver. Multiple times. Liam forgave. She went back and forth between them. He forgave.
Hope thought she killed Thomas and kept it from Liam. She lied about her pills addiction. 2 secrets among others she kept from him.

How much more is he supposed to forgive? Everyone has a breaking point. Everyone gets karma except Hope, I wish this time will be different.

IA with you. Another thing, Liam was not over fondling Steffy and fantasizing about her every day, before he saw Tom with Mannequin Hope making out, got drunk, and banged Steffy. It was a total one-off. He was not pining away for her, if she touched his hand while handing him Kelly, he did not melt into a puddle of goo daydreaming about being on top of her with his hair blowing in the breeze. He was not having meltdowns over concern about feelings for her, nada, nothing, zilch. He got drunk thinking Hope as cheating on him, and ran to a familiar face and body....it was wrong, it was stupid, it was cheating, but he sure as hell was not pretending and lying for months to Hope, about his "fantasy issue" which has gotten worse and worse, which means Hope does not have anything in "control" as she keeps proclaiming.

I hope Liam just tells her they are done, because what is the point of going forward? If she cheats, is she going to get rid of Tom as her designer? Because she would have to if she wanted her marriage to work. She can still co=parent with Tom, like Liam and Steffy do, but Liam and Steffy are not working together day in and day out. And, when Hope told him he had to tell Steffy the truth about not being her "sweet husband" because it was bothering her, HE DID IT! I hope Hope gets burned to the ground for this deal....she needs to get the hell off her high horse and stop saying things like "I am nothing like my Mom" and "I am not the one that cheated with my ex" and "I would never break my vows to Liam"...she has already broken his trust, when she lied to his face when he asked if she had feelings for Tom, and when she told Tom details about things Liam told her one on one to open up to her. That was none of Tom's business. And, he should not keep asking her how Liam feels about any of it. Hope thinks it is none of Steffy's business and she is right, well she needs to tell Tom the same thing when he asks about how Liam is handling their working together. Which Tom asks that question of her at least every single day....why? Hope has already betrayed her husband's trust. She will do worse in Rome.

To be fair, if Hope cheats with Thomas, it was the person that kept Beth from them and the dude that punched him.

It is a big ask to forgive Hope if she cheats with him. (Assuming Hope does something of course)

Maybe one day he will and Lope will reunite.

After all the Liam has done, Hope is worse? No way.

To be fair, if Hope cheats with Thomas, it was the person that kept Beth from them and the dude that punched him.

It is a big ask to forgive Hope if she cheats with him. (Assuming Hope does something of course)

Maybe one day he will and Lope will reunite.

I don't understand the concept that hope can hold things against Liam that happened decades ago, but it's okay for her to forgive Thomas instantly restore him and Liam better not have a problem with it because of what Liam did decades ago.

Very well said. Liam will forgive, but accepting the truth will be too much.
He is getting the most passionate sex of his life since Hope started her Thomas fantasies.
Her heart is ready to explode at every close moments around him.
She is getting all hot and turned on at the mere touch of his hands, as shown last week with the hands contact on the desk. Imagine if it ever goes further.
They keep daydreaming about each other at the same time.
Even Liam said they are cosmically connected. How does he make peace with that and move on. Impossible task.

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas and I don’t think she will, if she sees it as a mistake and sorry, Liam has two options divorce or forgive her. Liam has done far worse. How many times did Liam waffle between Steffy and Hope. Liam went to Steffy because he was he upset with Hope. Steffy chased Liam like a mad dog. How many weddings didn’t happen because of Steffy? While married to Hope, Liam and Steffy thought he may have fathered their second child. I remember when Hope and Liam were getting married and Taylor drove like bat out of hell so Steffy could shout out before Hope and Liam said I do that she was pregnant the first time.
If Hope sleeps with Thomas and she still want Liam, he should say very little. He can forgive her or not, or ran to Steffy again but Liam has little room to talk regardless of it being Thomas

Sammy, I don't think Hope will sleep with Thomas (at least not in Rome) but this storyline is more complex than the way you put it. It isn't a simple case of "forgive not forgive". Thomas is the guy who kept Liam's baby from him and phyiscally assaulted him, threatened to kill him, drugged him and hates his family. And Hope has deep romantic, burgeoning and amorous feelings for him and constantly dreams about sex with him. She fantasizes about him in front of her own husband. The sound of her heartbeat gets louder when she is around Thomas but we don't hear the same when she is around Liam. She cried for several days when she hurt his feelings, which shows her feelings aren't just lust. There is a very strong emotional connection between them.

Liam will forgive Hope but there are other things at stake. His happiness, his well-being, his sanity. Hope's happiness and her needs are also important. Douglas' happiness, Beth's happiness are important. The stability of his family is important. Beth won't want to see her parents miserable and fighting all the time because she is in love with another guy and makes everyone around her unhappy. Any child wants to see her parents happy, not fighting. Douglas wants to see his parents happy too. Thomas wants to see Hope happy. Liam wants to see Hope happy. Does this marriage with Liam make her happy? Clearly not this year. Forgiveness and acceptance are 2 very different things. Liam can forgive but can he be happy with Hope in this marriage for the rest of his life knowing Hope has these deep emotional feelings and a strong sexual desire for a man he despises? What about Hope and what SHE wants? She may be married to Liam on the paper, but she isn't happy except when she is around Thomas.

Imo, everyone deserves better. Liam made a mistake with Steffy but he paid for it. Hope walked out and asked a separation. Liam begged for forgiveness for 6 months. He rotted in jail for weeks for something he didn't do. And when he got out, Hope told him she found complete forgiveness. He shouldn't have to pay for this moment of weakness for the rest of his life. If Hope is in love with someone else, he deserves better and Hope deserves better if Liam wears her down like she just said. Beth deserves better than 2 unhappy parents who always fight. It isn't a simple "forgive or not forgive" case here. There are so many other aspects to consider.

Yes, that's exactly my question. How long is Liam going to get karma? How long is that going to be the excuse? It's the same with brooke, for example. Deacon is 30 years behind her. So I guess Liam is always going to have to be quiet and not say anything even 30 years from now?

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas and I don’t think she will, if she sees it as a mistake and sorry, Liam has two options divorce or forgive her. Liam has done far worse. How many times did Liam waffle between Steffy and Hope. Liam went to Steffy because he was he upset with Hope. Steffy chased Liam like a mad dog. How many weddings didn’t happen because of Steffy? While married to Hope, Liam and Steffy thought he may have fathered their second child. I remember when Hope and Liam were getting married and Taylor drove like bat out of hell so Steffy could shout out before Hope and Liam said I do that she was pregnant the first time.
If Hope sleeps with Thomas and she still want Liam, he should say very little. He can forgive her or not, or ran to Steffy again but Liam has little room to talk regardless of it being Thomas

Sammy, I don't think Hope will sleep with Thomas (at least not in Rome) but this storyline is more complex than the way you put it. It isn't a simple case of "forgive not forgive". Thomas is the guy who kept Liam's baby from him and phyiscally assaulted him, threatened to kill him, drugged him and hates his family. And Hope has deep romantic, burgeoning and amorous feelings for him and constantly dreams about sex with him. She fantasizes about him in front of her own husband. The sound of her heartbeat gets louder when she is around Thomas but we don't hear the same when she is around Liam. She cried for several days when she hurt his feelings, which shows her feelings aren't just lust. There is a very strong emotional connection between them.

Liam will forgive Hope but there are other things at stake. His happiness, his well-being, his sanity. Hope's happiness and her needs are also important. Douglas' happiness, Beth's happiness are important. The stability of his family is important. Beth won't want to see her parents miserable and fighting all the time because she is in love with another guy and makes everyone around her unhappy. Any child wants to see her parents happy, not fighting. Douglas wants to see his parents happy too. Thomas wants to see Hope happy. Liam wants to see Hope happy. Does this marriage with Liam make her happy? Clearly not this year. Forgiveness and acceptance are 2 very different things. Liam can forgive but can he be happy with Hope in this marriage for the rest of his life knowing Hope has these deep emotional feelings and a strong sexual desire for a man he despises? What about Hope and what SHE wants? She may be married to Liam on the paper, but she isn't happy except when she is around Thomas.

Imo, everyone deserves better. Liam made a mistake with Steffy but he paid for it. Hope walked out and asked a separation. Liam begged for forgiveness for 6 months. He rotted in jail for weeks for something he didn't do. And when he got out, Hope told him she found complete forgiveness. He shouldn't have to pay for this moment of weakness for the rest of his life. If Hope is in love with someone else, he deserves better and Hope deserves better if Liam wears her down like she just said. Beth deserves better than 2 unhappy parents who always fight. It isn't a simple "forgive or not forgive" case here. There are so many other aspects to consider.

Very well written and I agree with much of what you said.

Hope has forgiven Liam. Period. In a relationship you don’t make the same mistake and say we’ll now we’re even unless you are 17-twenty something! LOL
So far if you’re counting Liam has done more and worse but for me, Hope being with Thomas is worse.
Thomas hurt the ENTIRE FAMILY.
Hope suspects Thomas had something to do with Emma’s death.
Thomas has shown himself as someone who can seem on the right path while plotting your harm all along!

ITA.
Liam is now back to sitting on the same coach he banged Steffy on while married to Hope just to whine about his trust issues with his wife. He KNOWS how Hope feels about his entanglement with Steffy. They’ve had this issue since Steffy started chasing him like a dog in heat back in 2010. Hope on the other hand is fighting hard to not act on her feelings something Liam has never done while in a relationship with Hope.
Every time he had the opportunity to cheat on Hope he did it.
How many kisses and love declarations to Steffy Hope doesn’t know about ?
He has no right to speak. Hope shouldn’t even be married to him after he almost got Steffy pregnant not that long ago.

THIS!! Liam was literally JUST telling Steffy all sorts of crap about their lives together, which a married man has no business saying! He has yet to tell Hope about all of that!

ITA.
Liam is now back to sitting on the same coach he banged Steffy on while married to Hope just to whine about his trust issues with his wife. He KNOWS how Hope feels about his entanglement with Steffy. They’ve had this issue since Steffy started chasing him like a dog in heat back in 2010. Hope on the other hand is fighting hard to not act on her feelings something Liam has never done while in a relationship with Hope.
Every time he had the opportunity to cheat on Hope he did it.
How many kisses and love declarations to Steffy Hope doesn’t know about ?
He has no right to speak. Hope shouldn’t even be married to him after he almost got Steffy pregnant not that long ago.

Exactly. How many day dreams did Liam have about Steffy and he still tried hard not to let it go farther?
That would be none. I don’t remember any daydreams. I just Liam remember jumping in bed with Steffy every time he was bothered by a little something and then justified it
Hope is just dreaming and not doing, unlike Liam

ITA.
Liam is now back to sitting on the same coach he banged Steffy on while married to Hope just to whine about his trust issues with his wife. He KNOWS how Hope feels about his entanglement with Steffy. They’ve had this issue since Steffy started chasing him like a dog in heat back in 2010. Hope on the other hand is fighting hard to not act on her feelings something Liam has never done while in a relationship with Hope.
Every time he had the opportunity to cheat on Hope he did it.
How many kisses and love declarations to Steffy Hope doesn’t know about ?
He has no right to speak. Hope shouldn’t even be married to him after he almost got Steffy pregnant not that long ago.

The difference is Liam has never held himself up as a paragon of morality. Hope has, and every other character around her has held her up as such, so what she’s been doing in terms of lying to/gaslighting her husband, her mother and Steffy, and actually even Thomas, is sickening.

ITA.
Liam is now back to sitting on the same coach he banged Steffy on while married to Hope just to whine about his trust issues with his wife. He KNOWS how Hope feels about his entanglement with Steffy. They’ve had this issue since Steffy started chasing him like a dog in heat back in 2010. Hope on the other hand is fighting hard to not act on her feelings something Liam has never done while in a relationship with Hope.
Every time he had the opportunity to cheat on Hope he did it.
How many kisses and love declarations to Steffy Hope doesn’t know about ?
He has no right to speak. Hope shouldn’t even be married to him after he almost got Steffy pregnant not that long ago.

Liam still doesn't know about many of Hope's kisses with Thomas, Oliver and Wyatt. I think Hope knows everything about Liam and Steffy's kisses. That's the main difference. Liam gets caught and pays. Hope gets away with everything or gets instant forgiveness.

I agree. I’m 100 percent Team Hope no matter what.

And if Liam runs to Steffy he’ll be running to a married woman.

Yep. Poor Finn

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas and I don’t think she will, if she sees it as a mistake and sorry, Liam has two options divorce or forgive her. Liam has done far worse. How many times did Liam waffle between Steffy and Hope. Liam went to Steffy because he was he upset with Hope. Steffy chased Liam like a mad dog. How many weddings didn’t happen because of Steffy? While married to Hope, Liam and Steffy thought he may have fathered their second child. I remember when Hope and Liam were getting married and Taylor drove like bat out of hell so Steffy could shout out before Hope and Liam said I do that she was pregnant the first time.
If Hope sleeps with Thomas and she still want Liam, he should say very little. He can forgive her or not, or ran to Steffy again but Liam has little room to talk regardless of it being Thomas

If Hope crosses the line with Thomas, then she's wrong for breaking her vows to her husband. What Liam did decades ago has no bearing on Hope's actions and decisions now. Nor does it excuse her. Nor does it justify her actions. This is entirely on Hope.

Now, if Hope betrays Liam, I hope he packs it in and doesn't look back. LIam's past has nothing to do with Hope's present and her treatment of him has been abhorrent. I've been ready to move on from this couple ever since the day Hope annulled her marriage to a heartbroken father who put his own trauma aside to comfort her, his wife.

Yes, this. I completely agree.