Li’s Attitude (General)

dxdobson, 5/25/2022, 1:33AM (711 days ago)- 6 people liked this[OO]

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3

Li’s Attitude

Barbybo, 5/25/2022, 1:40AM (711 days ago) @dxdobson

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3

She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/25/2022, 1:03PM (710 days ago) @Barbybo

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning

Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Li’s Attitude

cranberryboy, 5/25/2022, 7:25PM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.

Of course. Tanner said so.

Li’s Attitude

matisse, 5/26/2022, 12:58AM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.

I am sure she would, her father tried to do that exact thing to his step=dad Eric when he was in a coma. Ridge wanted to pull the plug, and Donna stopped it as Eric's legal wife.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/26/2022, 8:32AM (710 days ago) @matisse

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.


I am sure she would, her father tried to do that exact thing to his step=dad Eric when he was in a coma. Ridge wanted to pull the plug, and Donna stopped it as Eric's legal wife.

Didn't Steffy make a comment yesterday, something about letting Finn go?

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Li’s Attitude

Barbybo, 5/26/2022, 6:17AM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.

I must have ff the brain dead …did the emergency people say brain dead? Could Finn live and be a vegetable? Could that be the story …gawd such a depressing soap…new stuff needed ….back to fashion please

Li’s Attitude

cranberryboy, 5/26/2022, 8:06AM (710 days ago) @Barbybo

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.


I must have ff the brain dead …did the emergency people say brain dead? Could Finn live and be a vegetable? Could that be the story …gawd such a depressing soap…new stuff needed ….back to fashion please

Fashion alone is boring without a good storyline.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/26/2022, 8:35AM (710 days ago) @cranberryboy

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.


I must have ff the brain dead …did the emergency people say brain dead? Could Finn live and be a vegetable? Could that be the story …gawd such a depressing soap…new stuff needed ….back to fashion please


Fashion alone is boring without a good storyline.

I think they've come up with a good story here. I'm interested to see what happens, unlike with a lot of the stories. And Li is totally believable as the fierce mama bear.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/26/2022, 8:34AM (710 days ago) @Barbybo

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


She’s another waco guy needs a hospital and his wife not in morning


Here's the thing, though. Finn has been declared brain dead with no chance to recover. If Li tells Steffy that he is alive, Steffy may use her legal power to have the plug pulled and let him go.

Is this a crazy plan that Li is carrying out? Yes. It's a very soapy, dramatic, and intriguing plan. Li obviously isn't ready to say goodbye to Finn. And being that it is a soap plan, she just may get the miracle she's holding on for.


I must have ff the brain dead …did the emergency people say brain dead? Could Finn live and be a vegetable? Could that be the story …gawd such a depressing soap…new stuff needed ….back to fashion please

I think it will be an uplifting story, if he does regain consciousness. If he comes back I don't think he'll be a vegetable. That would be awful.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Ilovebizzie, Baltimore, MD, USA, 5/25/2022, 2:02AM (711 days ago) @dxdobson

Yes and also when a tragic event happens it’s very normal to look back on things and think “well if A hadn’t happened, B wouldn’t have happened…”. You try to find all the reasons that lead up to something and Li is tracing Finn’s trauma all the way back to the Forresters whether that’s fair or not.

Besides to the public of the B&B world, they are like tabloid stories so it’s not surprising Li sees them as having “baggage”.

Li’s Attitude

LTerri, 5/25/2022, 12:54PM (710 days ago) @dxdobson- one person liked this

OMG You are so right!
Li did what a truly loving, caring Mom would do.
The hospital wanted to give up, she wouldn't have it. Blood does not always make a family.
Love does.

Li’s Attitude

B&Bfan1980, 5/25/2022, 1:18PM (710 days ago) @dxdobson

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3

I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/25/2022, 1:32PM (710 days ago) @B&Bfan1980

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.

What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Li’s Attitude

B&Bfan1980, 5/25/2022, 1:59PM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?

i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.

Li’s Attitude

Crzyideas, 5/25/2022, 2:11PM (710 days ago) @B&Bfan1980

Heres my take on this mess. Sheila escapes, finds out Finn is alive. Kills Li, hides Finn. Put some Whoodoo only Sheila can do and brings him back to life. He doesnt remember Steffy or Hayes or Li and Jack. He only knows Sheila and she creates memories for him. Typical soap drama, but can B&B handle that?

Li’s Attitude

cranberryboy, 5/25/2022, 7:28PM (710 days ago) @Crzyideas

Heres my take on this mess. Sheila escapes, finds out Finn is alive. Kills Li, hides Finn. Put some Whoodoo only Sheila can do and brings him back to life. He doesnt remember Steffy or Hayes or Li and Jack. He only knows Sheila and she creates memories for him. Typical soap drama, but can B&B handle that?

Despicable.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/25/2022, 2:13PM (710 days ago) @B&Bfan1980

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?


i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.

It's really unrealistic that Li would be able to get Finn's body cremated without asking his wife first, that's for sure.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Li’s Attitude

dxdobson, 5/25/2022, 4:22PM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly- one person liked this

Li’s entire focus is on Finn. Just like the Forresters were focused on Steffy.
Li couldn’t tell Dteffy initially and now what is there to tell?
The doctors called it. He was dead. Obviously he has improved since Li came along.
Until he wakes up - no need to tell Steffy.

Li’s Attitude

hopeyougogirl, 5/25/2022, 4:30PM (710 days ago) @dxdobson

Li’s entire focus is on Finn. Just like the Forresters were focused on Steffy.
Li couldn’t tell Dteffy initially and now what is there to tell?
The doctors called it. He was dead. Obviously he has improved since Li came along.
Until he wakes up - no need to tell Steffy.

Since this is a soap, I agree..and I think in the end, Steffy will appreciate Li did everything possible to save Finn's life, so that Hayes will be able to grow up with his father. Thanks to Li.

--
Shown on screen, Steffy blackmailed Bill. Yet, she told Ivy (and Liam too) that “blackmail is a crime”. Per Steffy’s own words, she IS a criminal cuz she has blackmailed.

Li’s Attitude

cranberryboy, 5/25/2022, 7:29PM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?


i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.


It's really unrealistic that Li would be able to get Finn's body cremated without asking his wife first, that's for sure.

Apparently she didn’t.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Drangonfly @, 5/25/2022, 7:51PM (710 days ago) @cranberryboy

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?


i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.


It's really unrealistic that Li would be able to get Finn's body cremated without asking his wife first, that's for sure.


Apparently she didn’t.

Right. But Steffy doesn't know that. Imagine your husband dies and you learn that his mother had him cremated and you don't even get to say goodbye? Or know where he's laid to rest. The writing is kind of bonkers.

--
"I love you more than anything or anyone in the world. And I want you by my side for the rest of my life."

"You're the love of my life."

Liam to Hope. Debate over.

Li’s Attitude

cranberryboy, 5/26/2022, 12:10AM (710 days ago) @Drangonfly

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?


i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.


It's really unrealistic that Li would be able to get Finn's body cremated without asking his wife first, that's for sure.


Apparently she didn’t.


Right. But Steffy doesn't know that. Imagine your husband dies and you learn that his mother had him cremated and you don't even get to say goodbye? Or know where he's laid to rest. The writing is kind of bonkers.

Man if steffy could just see Finn’s face again. I hope it happens soon. Can’t take this waiting. :na

Li’s Attitude

BBDownunder, 5/26/2022, 12:16AM (710 days ago) @cranberryboy

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?


i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.


It's really unrealistic that Li would be able to get Finn's body cremated without asking his wife first, that's for sure.


Apparently she didn’t.


Right. But Steffy doesn't know that. Imagine your husband dies and you learn that his mother had him cremated and you don't even get to say goodbye? Or know where he's laid to rest. The writing is kind of bonkers.

Man if steffy could just see Finn’s face again. I hope it happens soon. Can’t take this waiting. :na

guessing it will be after JMW mat leave

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Tiqui1999 @, 5/26/2022, 3:13PM (709 days ago) @B&Bfan1980

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3


I disagree. It is cruel to keep Steffy in the dark about this. I don't have a DNR, but do have very specific directives around this kind of thing. I would not be happy if my mother unilaterally decided to keep me on life support when there is no brain activity detected.
\However, I am giving Li the benefit of the doubt she has had to deal with a lot, maybe this is temporary insanity and she will come to her senses. Let's see how it plays out.
And I agree she will do something to Sheila.


What if Li gets a miracle and Finn wakes up?


i am sure she will because it is a soap, but who knows who he will be when he comes back.
I can't just look past her making this decision without Steffy's input. I had a very controlling mother so I suppose this is triggering lol. We were close, but my spouse would ALWAYS be the person to make that decision.

I have a feeling that Steffy would have been down with this decision had she known. Like you say, it's a soap so excellent chances of survival. I don't recall if anyone was mad when Stephanie did it to Felicia without permission or Angela. Were they? Can't remember.

Avatar

Li’s Attitude

Tiqui1999 @, 5/26/2022, 3:05PM (709 days ago) @dxdobson

I saw nothing wrong with the way Li acted!
The foreshadowing I saw was she is going to kill Sheila! Or do something to her!
She’s right! Had Finn not been involved with the Forresters, he would never have been shot. But her s as Negt was with Sheila.
What I get from Li is the true love of a mother - blood does not make you a mother!
Li is fighting her son and is giving him a second life.<3

Yeah, but why is she so mean? It's the same with Grace. too mean for some reason.

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